In Conversation: Kaitlin Solimine

Since I started Kula, my priority has been amplifying the voices of others— their work, their missions, and the stories that connect us. This website is an extension of that vision, a space to not only showcase the incredible people behind the podcasts I produce but to engage in deeper conversations about their journeys. As part of this, I set out to speak with each of my clients—the hearts and minds behind the shows— not just to share their stories in their own voices but to reflect on the evolution of their work. Are we making progress? Do their goals remain the same? How have their perspectives shifted over time?

Kaitlin Solimine, writer and host of Postpartum Production, was the first of these conversations. In the spirit of this past season's focus on birth stories, Kaitlin and I discussed the origins of Postpartum Production, her creative work, and the larger questions that drive the podcast, her writing and her activism. It is indeed a conversation about birth, not just in the literal sense, but in all the ways we bring things into the world: whether it's books, ideas, communities, or even ourselves as we evolve.

It was so nice to sit with Kaitlin and reflect on the work we both care so deeply for. I am very proud to support her and this podcast in its mission to reframe the work that we- myself absolutely included- do as caregivers and creatives to be seen as valuable and meaningful in a capitalist society. I hope you enjoy this conversation too, and I look forward to sharing more Postpartum Production with you next season.

Erin: I figured we could start with that concept of the birth story and talk about this project, because this season you were asking all of the guests, “What have you given birth to?” And I was like, if I ask Kaitlin.. I kind of know the answer. First of all, I've heard literally all three of your birth stories by now, so I know those go without saying.. but I thought, if Kaitlin were to answer that question, for sure this project would be on there.

So I want to go back a little bit to the origins of this podcast, which I wasn't around for. I came along in between seasons one and two. And I know it's all on your website, but I thought we could talk about that beginning of it, because that was after your third, right? So that must have been what, winter 2022?

Kaitlin: Yeah, it was like January 2022. So that's been three years. I'm trying to situate myself as I often ask guests to sit in their bodies in a moment in time, and trying to remember what that was like, feels literally like a lifetime ago. I mean, with kids, they are lifetimes, they're their lifetime, so it feels like you're living someone else's lifetime. In the case of this podcast, it's the same.

I honestly was not, and still am not a huge podcast listener. I'm not in my car a lot; I walk, so I'll try, but my walks are even short. Everything in my life is very close by, so I don't have that time to listen enough. As a writer, I thought of this originally as some kind of anthology. I was really curious about, coming from the writing world: what sort of writing is produced in especially early postpartum and what that looks like, or what creativity looks and feels and sounds like. So in some ways, less about talking about the experience itself, more about what creative moments and creative works come out of that time period. Because for me, it felt like I was doing something, but it didn't look like what it looked like before kids.

And it looked different. And it felt meaningful, but it didn't feel like something that fit within the system of capitalist means in production where it could be easily quantified and easily monetized. And so, I was drawn to understanding that. I think that was my biggest question, and to feeling less alone in that, and also connecting with other people who were in that moment, or had been in that moment.

So, I reached out to a previous babysitter who was getting a PhD in media studies and was like, “do you have time to just help me with this?” because I knew that I didn't have the time and I also thought she would be a good fit, even just exploring if I wanted to do an anthology, helping me put that together because also I had a newborn at the time, and two old older kids. So I knew I couldn't do it by myself. And she said, “I think this is a podcast.” And I was like, really? Okay. And then I received an email serendipitously, that Sarah Davis, who was a friend, who I have not met in person very often since we were in a program in China together in 1996, but I had subscribed to her newsletter and she had a podcast, and she was starting to do podcast advising and editing and getting podcasts off the ground. And so it just felt like, “hmm. That's interesting. Maybe she would have some insights.” So those two things came together at once and I reached out to Sarah. She was like, “I love this. I think it's great.” And then we started developing it.

So, I started recording in March of 2022. And my first recording was with Sarah Chaves, who was a good friend and who had also had a young child at the time. That first episode feels so precious, in such a lovely way, but so vulnerable. It just felt like we were both sitting in that moment together. And then, it went from there and it was honestly really easy. Finding people to talk to has never been the challenge, which I think speaks to how important the subject matter is and how many people want to talk about it as well.

And so it was more of a question of just: how we do this and how we put it all together, what that looks like. Because again, I was not a podcaster.

Erin: Was there a theme for the first season?

Kaitlin: I don't think so. I think it was just really focused around understanding postpartum creativity, and talking to people who were practitioners.

And then the second season, I thought, “I really enjoyed that,” and I wondered about extracting myself a little bit, extracting the subject matter to be a bit more from the perspective of those who study it: people who might have more of a outside perspective that may have gone through it themselves, aren't necessarily creatives and practitioners, but bring something else to the conversation who have looked at the creative process. We've looked at maternal transitions and all of that, so that was a slightly different shift.

And then the birth piece for this season was honestly somewhat selfish in some ways. I just am a total birth nerd and activist and wanted to drill down the experiences of early caregiving and understand “birth” itself, what that even means and what that looks like, and unpacking the birth experience, not just of giving birth necessarily yourself and your own body, but what the word “birth” means.

And so that was where that came from. So, it's been a journey of continually rediscovering what this means to both me and to the wider world and yeah, it's been very unexpected. It was not what I anticipated doing for the last three years.

Erin: Where were you in your book writing process when you were having kids?

Kaitlin: I wrote most of my first book- first and only at this point- prior to having my first child. And it took me from research to publication about 10 years. But in the middle of that, I was doing a master's degree and traveling, and I started a company and a lot of other things going on. And then that book came out when my first child was 18 months, so traveled literally the world with her in my carrier sling and various help along the way from my parents and my husband and our nanny and friends that we stayed with. It was super fun and looking back on it, I'm like, “oh my gosh, how did I do that?” Like I was traveling a lot.

Erin: Did you live in different places?

Kaitlin: No, we were based in San Francisco, but I remember there was one time I came back from the East coast, back to San Francisco- it was Halloween- and then either that night took a red eye or the next day took a red eye by myself. I did a lot of it alone in terms of some of the travel by myself to Singapore with the baby.

At that point, I think she was like almost two, which was great 'cause I was getting paid for this trip, but I think they only paid for my tickets. So I was grateful that she was under two and I didn't have to pay another ticket. But then speaking of care, then when we got there, I had lived in Singapore previously and I had friends there, and I reached out to friends for finding part-time care for her because I landed and had an interview, and then I had panels and I had different events through this conference… So that was that book.

And then I had a column in a really lovely, very small publication called Mother Scope, and I talked to their founder as well on the first season of the podcast. It felt really nice just to write about early motherhood while I was in it. And it was a really great venue for that. And then was at the same time working on the second book that I am now working on, and a third book.

So that second book I put on pause because this book that I'm working on pretty diligently right now started as a short story when I didn't yet know I was pregnant with our third child. So yeah, this third pregnancy did a lot of strange things to me. After the birth, we were living for a period in Hawaii, which was lovely and lucky, but my husband had worked there and it was right at the transition point in Covid where vaccines were starting to become available, but it was also very hard to travel. So we all went there and lived there for a little under two months. And this short story- it wasn't even a short story, it was a line- it was the first line of the short story just sprung into my head one afternoon and that's it. Just took over. It just was like this thing I had to write and I thought it was a short story, and now it's a short novel

Erin: That's crazy- from one line! Do you remember that moment when it came in?

Kaitlin: Yeah, I know exactly where I was sitting.

Erin: That's cool. Yeah. So how is writing going now? Actually, that's a question I had for you now versus then. Kids, no kids, how has your creative process changed? This is something you talk to your guests about too.

Kaitlin: That’s a good question. I don't know if this is unique to children. Maybe I've never thought of it in this way, but this particular book I'm working on is very fun. Like my first book was not fun for me to write. It was hard.

Erin: Oh, not the subject matter itself, but the process.

Kaitlin: Yeah, it was just that it was, well, the subject matter was also not fun. It was very dense and heavy and a lot of subject matters that were really hard to sit with. I was doing research on war crimes during the Korean War, and things that were really hard, books that I was reading to prepare myself for that were really challenging. And the work that I did for it too, I spent an entire year on a Fulbright in China for that book doing research. It was heavy.

This one was less so, and I'd still very research driven and I'm doing a lot of work, and there's facets of it that are really big issues and topics. There's something sort of sexy and fun about it, and I am excited in that my second book that I had been working on also wasn't as fun, and I now see ways to make it a little bit more fun for me anyway, so that's nice.

And I don't know if it's the kids or possibly, I think it's that I have to enjoy the work that I am able to do when I'm able to do it. And I don't want it to feel like drudgery because it does feel so much more like a gift than when you have more unfettered time to work with. And so when I do go to it, I want it to feel like it's bringing something to me energetically. It's worth it. It's rejuvenating.

Erin: I totally get it. When your time isn't so much your own anymore, and when you have time, you're like, “why would I do something I don't like? Why would I spend the time, like, this is so precious.” Every hour, you know, every minute.

Kaitlin: I think we're lucky when we are able to do creative work. I mean, obviously the other challenge of this is like, it does not pay well.

So when I'm doing it knowing that most likely it's not going to be something that can sustain me financially, I better like it because what's the point of doing it if I'm, like you said, there's just no point in doing it with it not being something that is fun for me. And I think, yeah, just seeking those things, that has been something that's come out of this third birth in a way that just, it was like a pressure cooker, right? Because now there's three kids. Now there's so much more that. I'd always wanted to learn how to play guitar, so I played guitar. I wanted to play tennis more. Coming out of that, I, you would think I would do less, but I'm focusing more on the things that personally bring me joy, and that's been something that birth has inspired and it's infused in the writing as well, I feel.

Erin: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense to me. Honestly, I think the same way too. After I had my kids, I mean, it was COVID, and then two years went by of my husband and I just at home hibernating and right sitting on our eggs, you know? But I had that same thing when it was time for me to go back to, well, I did go back to work and then I ended up losing that job, which was fine.

But when it came time to go back into like, do I go back into this corporate world, do I not, what do I do? I had that same sort of feeling where I was like, I only want to do something that actually feels worth it to me because you have these babies next to you and your time is just so much more precious. I found myself physically unable to do the things that I just didn't want to do anymore.That's when my production company came up too, so I totally understand that feeling.

Do you have any interest in writing about motherhood? You do on Substack and you have this podcast, which does require a decent amount of writing and thinking, there's content (I hate to use that word, content).You are writing about motherhood a lot, but in book form, do you have any desire to write about this topic or do you like to keep that separate when it comes to writing books?

Kaitlin: Well, the books that I've been working on since the first book are very much motherhood centric. I would say this second book was really examining pregnancy and birth very, very closely in terms of the character and midwifery. I shouldn't be talking about it in the past tense because I haven't finished it when I go back to it, I have some ideas in terms of how I'll re-approach that book now. And then this third one isn't explicitly, I would say like a “motherhood” book, but there's breastfeeding and leaking breasts and discussions about sleep training and co-sleeping and motherhood, and she's taken her daughter with her on this work trip, this main character. So it's not explicitly, I mean, I guess that's another, that's a question, right? What is a motherhood novel? Because what is a fatherhood novel? So the idea that there has to be, that there's like even a subcategory of fiction? But yeah, there are themes relating to motherhood in my work, for sure.

I had for a period of time, an idea for a collection of essays and I had worked on a few of them, but it's taken the back burner because I think I've also found that there's only so much space right now, and coming to terms with the right now is really hard.

For someone that, for me especially, I was so type A and very driven and I always want to tackle too many things at once. I'm just honestly really interested in a lot of things. I think I've just realized that I feel really good when I'm just working on this project, it feels manageable and I feel like I can really make progress on it. And in the past, I think I would've been working on this and working on these essays and whatever, and I'm like, “you know what? They're there and I've started them.” Let them saturate a little bit. Also, because for me, essays are very life driven and I feel like I need to live, hopefully, knock on wood a bit longer, and let some of those lessons sink in. And I think having started them in earlier motherhood actually could be really lovely 'cause I have writing in them that I can use later and look at from the perspective of someone else. Of myself, but later. So that could be another project for another time. Maybe when all of the kids are more grown.

Erin: Do you do a lot of your writing during the day at night when they go down? When do you find yourself doing the most work?

Kaitlin: During the day I have a few groups of mother writers that have been hugely important I found and unexpectedly, hugely important to my writing process right now.

So I have a new friend, Ipek, which is so lovely.

Erin: I love making new friends.

Kaitlin: I know. It's been really refreshing to make a really good new friend. Yeah. Our kids don't go to school together, we just met at an event and really hit it off. And she's a writer, all of her novels have been in Turkish. So we meet pretty much, it's not always consistent, but about once a week for a full day, at least, like five hours, and write.

Erin: You cowork.

Kaitlin: Yeah, exactly. And then there's also a group of writers that I was connected to, firstly, mostly through this group, which I've mentioned on the podcast a ton, which is called Artist Residency in Motherhood. And it was a group that really started actually out of New York. I connected with a doula and writer named Sarah, and also a group here locally, which has been Minna Dubin and Cindy DeTiberio, Amanda Montei, and Patti Maciesz. And we've all met virtually, so we'll do a Tuesday, Thursday virtual meetup, and that's a couple hours. And I've found that if I have two and a half to three days a week where I’m sitting and focusing on my writing for a good three to five hours of each of those, and I'm setting little goals, it's moving the needle, and it's meaningful, and I'm so focused during that time.

And I do have to say that there's something really refreshing- I don't know if it's middle life or just middle career- but I'm much more, it's not even necessarily that I'm more productive, but my writing is just already at a place that it took me longer to get to when I was younger. I remember I had a mentor in my MFA program who was about, I'd say she was about a decade older than I am, and we would share a car to grad school. We both were commuting the same distance, and she was a professor and I was in grad school, and I still remember things she told me about writing at the time. It was like, you know, if someone tells you something and you're like, “Ugh, what? I don't understand that.” And then you get there yourself and it's like, “oh, wow, I'm doing the thing that she said she was doing.” And there were two things she said: One was she really didn't share her work at all. She just did the work, finished it and gave it to her agent. And at that time I was just so needy for feedback and workshops and people telling me different things and then, oh, I have to think about this and that and this. And I just was like, “My God, how does she even know? How does she feel like she's done?”

Erin: That's confidence!

Kaitlin: Exactly. And then the other was that in addition to not needing the feedback, she often didn't need to edit her work a lot because by the time she wrote it, it was already ready. And that again, I was like, “what?”

And now, both of those things feel totally true to me. I am working on this project. I've shared it with no one, really. I've shared tiny bits with a few people that I needed to write a recommendation for me for something, and it wasn't for feedback. So I feel very much confident in this book in the sense that I've writing it and when it's done, I feel like I will know that. I don't feel like I need that feedback. And then furthermore, same with the writing, that it's just, even when it's a new draft and it's fresh, a lot of it feels like it comes to the page and that's exactly how it should be.

Erin: That's so great. Less of the need to tinker or change?

Kaitlin: Yeah. I mean, there's some, but it's not nearly to the extent that I felt when I was really learning. I guess it's maybe just learning to write and it's just, I've done it enough now that it comes more naturally. And so I'm really grateful for that. And you can't expect that early on, right?

Erin: No, you can't.

Kaitlin: You can't. And it's such a gift of middle life that yeah, we should celebrate that. We get to this moment where we have that confidence or we feel proficient and steady in the work that we're doing.

Erin: Yeah. And I feel like you can't do that until the muscle memory is there. Your intuition just is the right thing.

Kaitlin: Exactly. Yeah. You don't have to guess it over and over, whether your intuition is correct.

Erin: Right. That's great, that's a good perspective. Okay, so I want to talk a little bit more about the podcast itself. Looking at season three, which focused on birth stories, I know you say you're interested in birth.

What did you hope to achieve by sharing? I kind of know the answer to this, but, by sharing it with other people, what did you hope to achieve by focusing on birth stories?

Kaitlin: Honestly, I think it came less from an expectation or hope that something would come out of it and more of just pure curiosity around what birth means in the process and what birth specifically as, I mean, it's a strange thing. It's just a weird word to me even, because when you give birth to something, it's like, when is that even? When is that moment? You always think about even with your child, or with a book, like you mentioned, I guess in terms of this third book, it's like that was the birth of it, that sentence. Or is the birth of it later?

Erin: What is conception, really?

Kaitlin: Exactly. And so I think I was really curious how that would sit, and I do think that there are such diverse perspectives and experiences of that, and so being able to share that was really compelling and exciting and to sit with people in really vulnerable moments, because I also think that, I guess my other underlying hope, which I hadn't really thought of explicitly until now, is just that there are so few birth stories shared in the world, and there are a lot of lovely projects that are sharing birth stories in the way that I did with Sarah on the podcast that were more specific to my own births, but as women and as caregivers, and as partners and parents, that we don't hear birth stories enough. And I think that sadly, when we do, I think it's often more of the traumatic or warning birth stories and not the triumphant ones that can look triumphant in different ways. That doesn't mean it's a specific process, but that it's a specific experience.

And so, being able to sit with that and examine that was important to me and to look at the ways that birth isn't- you know, speaking with Anna Hennessy, who's done a lot of work on birth in art, how little birth is referenced in academic works and in novels and when it's literally such a universal experience- obviously everyone was born in some way- that it's not thought of as something that can be examined with intellectual and emotional and psychological rigor even as a subject. But there is a great- to put a little plug out for my friend Anna, who I've also interviewed this season- has put together symposium on Natality which will be in early April, and I highly recommend everyone to join the symposium to listen in. It's virtual. And I will be presenting this podcast mostly as a panelist.

Erin: That’s awesome. Okay, so that's season three, and we have talked privately about what's next, but what are the topics you would love to explore, not just in our next season, but in general with the podcast? What areas would you like to dive into more?

Kaitlin: As we've discussed, I’m interested in looking at the ways in which social and political structures support or are detrimental to caregivers in postpartum. Meaning, what sort of family leave, what sort of in-home care, what sort of postpartum care, mental health, all of the really necessary pieces that support families through that process. And to also examine that potentially from the perspective of creativity and what other resources there are or could be that could support artists in different ways. So that's something I'm really interested in.

I think I am extremely interested in education in the United States right now, and I don't know how that specifically relates to all of this, but I have been doing a lot of activism and grassroots work locally on that. And so, even just from a writing perspective too, of trying to understand what it is I'm trying to say and what I care about.

Erin: Yeah. Gosh, there are so many ways we could explore when we start talking about the systems, and politics. And this is one of the things I love about this podcast and just the subject matter in general is it is so deeply intimate and it's such a personal thing, but it also is so affected by the systems and the country we happen to live in. Or the gender we happen to be, or some of these very basic things, and there's so much to examine all across that spectrum of both the individual and the collective, and the systemic stuff that impacts the individual and vice versa. So there's a lot of ways we could go with it.

One thing I've been thinking a lot about, especially as I'm writing my own website and thinking about my mission and the work that we do, and why we're doing it, if we go back to the original mission of Postpartum Production, which is to “reframe the way we think about caregiving and creative work and seeing that as valuable and meaningful in society.”

How do you feel like that's going? From your vantage point, how do you feel progress is going?

Kaitlin: Oh God, that’s a big question. Obviously given what's happening right now politically in the United States, it feels really discouraging. And at the same time, I feel like, and I do sometimes worry, I am like, am I just living in an echo chamber? Obviously, on social media and the newsfeed that I follow, I'm honed to look for these subject matters. And so I feel like I see them a lot. I see a lot of books and art coming out that is focused on all of these themes, and so, I do think when, yeah, you take a big, big grand picture of these topics and experiences over time, that we're at a better place now, in terms of how open these conversations are. I think that's huge.

So I just, as I said that, I was thinking about my daughter the other day was taking a bath and I was on the toilet and she was like, mom, what if I get my period at school?

And she is young and I know people are getting their periods younger.. I don't think she's going to get her period anytime soon, so I hadn't gone through that with her yet- and so we did have a conversation around how she can be prepared and what we'll do, and having a kit and all of that, and really talking about it a little bit more so she feels comfortable.

But just even that alone that we're sitting and she's just like, my kids all know what periods are and, and Perimenopause, I don't even know the word like that, that even Perimenopause wasn't a thing that our mother's generation talked about or understood.

Erin: No.

Kaitlin: So all of that feels like we're more informed, we have better supports, at least that we create. I don't know that the system is creating it for us. But that is that we are creating, in community. This is a really big picture thing, but I was thinking prior to talking today, that one thing that this podcast and all works like this, I think do, is that we're basically becoming primary sources for future generations, right?

These recordings are recorded and ideally live in a cloud, in a digital space that. Lives on potentially forever in some form. Who knows what forever is, but so long as humans are able to function on Earth, and Earth can support our species and we can support Earth, that I often think about that, that at the end of the day, if all that is left is this digital record of what it felt like in 2023 and 2024 and 2025, to be wrestling with these questions and to share these experiences, that alone is valuable and that it is truly a record of human experience. Like we're living history, right? And so having these conversations and recording them and putting them in a place where they can be held in this archive, I think really matters too, and I think gives the individual voice and experience.

That much more power that hopefully can be potentially a really positive tool moving forward now, but also generations to come to understand what it was like in this particular political, social moment.

Erin: I love that perspective. I had that thought too, I wonder if my kids will ever listen to the stuff I've done. I wonder when your kids, well, do they know you do this? Do they understand your work?

Kaitlin: Our oldest does. Yeah. She understands it. They all know I'm a writer. They get that. I don't, the podcasting, I think my oldest does. The youngest, I don't think really, and the middle, he’ll just want to disrupt everything.. but yeah. It's funny as you were saying that too, I was thinking when my oldest was a baby, I had this little book and you could write letters to your child. And you could write it on a certain date, and then you fold it up and you tape it in, and then you write when it can be opened.

And she found it recently and one of them, one of the first ones I wrote, and she was born December 3rd, 2015, and I think the date I wrote it was January 5th, 2016. So she was like a month old. I wrote that she could open it on her 10th birthday, and she looked at and she's like, “Mom, this is next year.” I was like, “Whoa, oh my God.” Because at that point it felt so far away and now I'm like, “oh, I'm living in the future.” Now I am in the moment that I was projecting and I was so curious, like, what was my voice then? What did I say? And I think as creatives, we have such a gift that we give to ourselves, to our families, and to the world at large of this record of these lived experiences at that moment. I know people write journals and I think it's the same exercise, being able to look back on where you were at that moment, and I think this is an audio version of that. And yeah, I agree, even just from the personal perspective, it’s lovely to think about that record.

Erin: I hope they listen back and they're like, you couldn't do this back then?I hope it's all just better stuff from now. And the limitations we have now are a thing of the past. One can only help. Like, “You only got 12 weeks maternity leave?! We get two years now!” Let's hope, let's hope.

Well, this has been a really nice reflection.

Kaitlin: Yeah, I agree. I was going to say that I wanted to thank you because similar to this conversation, I feel like you have brought so much curiosity and care to the work that you're doing for the podcast, and I've really appreciated that and I think that has shown through in the work that we've produced together, and it's just really felt like a partnership. I needed that and I need a partner in this; I don't want to feel like I'm doing this alone. It doesn't feel like it’s contractual in that sense, it feels like you really care about the project and the work. So I have appreciated that.

Erin: Honestly, Kaitlin, I am, like, the target audience, you know? I feel this so deeply in my bones, and I think and hope so many people do relate to this subject matter, and sometimes even when I'm going into editing, I have to make sure I'm in the right -just like when you have the interview with somebody, you go to spaces or places emotionally or just intellectually- you gotta be ready. And so it's like therapy sessions when I edit these. They get me. It's important work and it's resonating and I know it resonates with so many other people. It's really been meaningful work for me. And so it's easy for me to be curious about and have ideas because I'm living the experience too. And I say that as I like literally edit while I have children on my lap. The hashtag #postpartumproduction comes to mind so much of my life.

Kaitlin: Yeah. I've seen that. I love the one of you on the floor in the shower or something.

Erin: Uhhuh. Yeah, that’s life. We're all just trying to make that work.

Kaitlin: No, I appreciate that. But I think as you were saying that, back to the original question that you asked about the podcast, this format of hearing people in their voices… as much as I love writing, it doesn't have the same resonance of the inflection or their tone or their positives and the way they read their work. They speak their experience. You can connect in such an interpersonal way that I've literally both cried being the person hearing it firsthand, and then even through the editorial process, as I listen to something again, it hits me again and again. And so I do think that there's something really beautiful and magical about the auditory experience of podcast, and appreciate that and I'm grateful to Madison- shout out for recommending I do a podcast- and no shade on writing, obviously, which I absolutely love, but it's just a complimentary experience and it feels appropriate for the conversations that we're having here.

Erin: I hope that when you are doing this work and when you're talking to people, that it actually is helping you or that you're able to process things and discover things. I know you have so much curiosity and there's a lot of intellectual drive and passion that you have, but I hope that it's also serves as a healing experience too. I think just talking through this stuff with other people, being able to relate and just feeling connected and in community with others is, is really impactful.

Well, thank you, this has been really great and I'm really excited for what's to come. Who knows what the next year will look like, but we’ll figure it out together.

Kaitlin: Yes, I'm grateful that we're in it together for sure.

Erin: Yeah. Yeah, same. Well, good luck writing. Thanks for your time today. It was good to talk to you.

Kaitlin: Yeah, this was fun. Thank you.